tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25727879.post5396041721072116207..comments2023-10-26T02:55:16.012-05:00Comments on Schvach - פני דל: Schvachhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10062435888706740643noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25727879.post-34932564032254533202009-01-09T01:27:00.000-06:002009-01-09T01:27:00.000-06:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25727879.post-53072372110424512512009-01-08T22:48:00.000-06:002009-01-08T22:48:00.000-06:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25727879.post-86278654679785442152009-01-03T02:11:00.000-06:002009-01-03T02:11:00.000-06:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25727879.post-43242268469038259172008-12-23T20:20:00.000-06:002008-12-23T20:20:00.000-06:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25727879.post-42466307346139998762007-11-15T10:31:00.000-06:002007-11-15T10:31:00.000-06:00Jonathon: Evidently, you and I have had very diffe...Jonathon: Evidently, you and I have had very different experiences with Chabad and the Conservative Movement. I like Chabad's commitment to providing for the larger Jewish community; I have no use for the Conservative Movement's concentration on politics and social activism, their organization, their emphasis on members' fealty to the organization, and the individual careers within the Movement that are the real concern of the Conservative Movement; nor for their apparent neglect of emphasis on Torah and Mitzvot outside the context of social activism. Thank you for exchanging comments with me.Schvachhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07052885350566210171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25727879.post-19189854931018561742007-11-15T10:22:00.000-06:002007-11-15T10:22:00.000-06:00Muse: Right you are. The pick and choose mentality...Muse:<BR/> Right you are. The pick and choose mentality/practice so often encountered is a real insult; much of the Orthodox Jewish world has committed itself to accepting their fellow Jews without proviso, baruch HaShem!Schvachhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07052885350566210171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25727879.post-60891593744372195462007-11-14T21:50:00.000-06:002007-11-14T21:50:00.000-06:00I don't know what Chabad rabbis you've been hangin...I don't know what Chabad rabbis you've been hanging out with, but I've heard plenty of disparaging remarks and nasty jokes from Chabad rabbis and buchers alike about the Conservative and especially the Reform movements. <BR/><BR/>I'm a member of a Chabad shul (though certainly no Chabadnik), so obviously I like the organization and some of what they do. But to say they don't talk smack about others (I've heard some rants about Satmar that would curl your beard)is not real. <BR/><BR/>And your hit on the Conservative movement also doesn't jibe with my experience. Sure, a lot of Conservative shuls tend to be "Institutions," large and impersonal bar mitzvah factories that cater to a mostly apathetic congregation interested more in conspicuous consumption than in God. This criticism has been around for a long time, is justified to a large extent, and is a major reason for the weakening of the movement as of late. But your insinuation that they are snooty wannabes who loathe "shtetl" Judaism just ain't so. <BR/><BR/>Conservative congregations are some of the most politically and philanthropically active in the country. And they give to charities other than just Jewish, something Chabad and the larger black-hat community pretty much never do. They embrace the larger world as Jews, try to be productive members of the larger world as Jews, and take their place as Jews in the world around them. Chabad doesn't do this, Chabad isn't interested in joining the larger world. Chabad wants to preserve their closed and pristine shtetl, only they want to make it bigger.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02715604356009679137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25727879.post-57653841268320145412007-11-14T12:08:00.000-06:002007-11-14T12:08:00.000-06:00Great post.Reminds me of when we moved to Great Ne...Great post.<BR/>Reminds me of when we moved to Great Neck in 1962. Previously we had been members of OJC, Conservative, but a great place. My parents looked into the shuls in GN. Not interested in Reform, and the Conservative had some waiting list, too full, unless you had oodles of money.<BR/>We were enthusiastically welcomed to the Great Neck Synagogue, then a very small Orthodox shul and smaller Orthodox community. Rabbi Wolf made everyone feel wanted and welcome. He's the reason why today the Orthodox is the dominent Jewish group there.Batyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09402874037427009327noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25727879.post-20921201540400450472007-11-14T11:05:00.000-06:002007-11-14T11:05:00.000-06:00Tamara: First, I don't have to convince you - I'm...Tamara:<BR/> First, I don't have to convince you - I'm not selling anything. Second, if the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it. Thirdly, my use of the word egalitarian refers to the absence of class status among those in attendance; I wasn't referring to political or social issues, ie., feminism. Lastly, if you know about Judaism, and it appears you do, then you know that Judaism is not the US Constitution. In Judaism there is a separation between the genders. This of course introduces a conflict for Jews living in American society. Too bad! That's Judaism (despite the account that Rashi had his daughters wear tefillin, and that he ruled that a daughter may recite kaddish for her father). I hope I haven't been too abrasive.Schvachhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07052885350566210171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25727879.post-31380137013847395972007-11-13T19:36:00.000-06:002007-11-13T19:36:00.000-06:00Please explain how you see Chabad as being eglatar...Please explain how you see Chabad as being eglatarian? <BR/><BR/>I mean...I know Chabad VERY well. As far as gender, definitely not eglatarian. I'm not a woman who wants to wrap tefillin. And frankly, I don't get mad that I can't read the Torah there; but I would like the choice to be made by me. Also, there is no mixed seating and in most Orthodox shuls, the mechitzah is set up where you can barely see the rabbi from the woman's side. I mean, if you ahven't sat on that side, it would be hard for you to see. Another thing, for Simchat Torah the Torah is danced with. The women can not dance with the Torah. So what happens on the woman's side? Well, we sit. We watch. We serve food and drinks. It's honestly a bit dull. I mean, since a Hasidic man can't see a woman dance, the woman, if they want to dance NEAR the Torah, must be behind the mechitzah. <BR/><BR/>Don't get me wrong, it's there custom...but you really are going to have to convince me on how you see it as being Eglatarian.Tamarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15749298944837540784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25727879.post-12388412006744136712007-11-13T11:50:00.000-06:002007-11-13T11:50:00.000-06:00Tamara:My experience with Chabad is different from...Tamara:<BR/>My experience with Chabad is different from yours. Every Chabad rabbi with whom I've had the experience of discussing rabbis in other movements have been scrupulous to refer to those rabbis by their formal titles. As I've written in my blogs, I have never heard a Lubavitch rabbi say anything negative about a fellow Jew or about any Jewish organization. By the way, Rabbi Steinsaltz gave a lecture at our local JCC years ago; the Chabadniks <BR/>were there in force, as well as many, many others. <BR/>Your point about the BIG schul and leading Conservative rabbis underscores my point about the Conservative Movement. In my experience, it has been about chasing prestige and superlatives.<BR/>Even though I'm not Orthodox, I'll<BR/>take Chabad's far more egalitarian,<BR/>supportive, Ahavas Yisroel approach.Schvachhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07052885350566210171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25727879.post-85223377059547410582007-11-12T15:23:00.000-06:002007-11-12T15:23:00.000-06:00You share this story of the conservative movement....You share this story of the conservative movement..."tales of how their antecedents, so disgusted with traditional Eastern European Jewish life, tossed their tefillin overboard into the ‘drink’ during their transport across the Atlantic en route to America."...<BR/><BR/>I think you're working from huge generalizations. First, IF there were individuals who threw their tefillin overboard, as you describe, one must take into consideration what they were fleeing, when, why, etc. You can NOT judge an entire community of Jews based on why some people may have left orthodoxy or left their tefillin. <BR/><BR/>Today's Conservative movement, from what I can tell, is far from that. I attend THREE different Conservative shuls regularly and I am a member of a Chabad community...long story. Anyway, the people at the Conservative shuls are serious Jews, serious learners, committed Jews. One of the shuls I attend is a BIG shul that is respected and is run by some of the leading conservative rabbis in this nation. Not only that, they encourage and seek out Jews of ALL streams as guest speakers and leaders of courses. As a matter of fact, Rabbi Steinsaltz just spoke at one of them. <BR/><BR/>Now I ask you...how many black hats do you think attended this event? I didn't see ONE! Yes, there were about 1000 people in attendance but I saw not one Chabadnik. Why? Because they wouldn't dare step into that shul. <BR/><BR/>However, Steinsaltz also happened to speak at my community Chabad that same week. There were about 150 people in attendance and most of those folks also weren't black hats, one was a Conservative rabbi at the 3rd shul I go to. <BR/><BR/>My point...it seems that there is acceptance flowing one direction and not in the other. Most Chabad rabbis, and I've been good friends with two personally and have had Shabbos at many more, most would straight say that they don't consider a non-orthodox rabbi a rabbi at all. <BR/><BR/>Oy, I know I'm going on and on but I just want to make sure that your generalizations aren't just overlooked by other readers. There is much tolerance from the Conservative movement to the left and right but I rarely see that flowing from the Ortho movement on out. <BR/><BR/>I hope that made sense.Tamarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15749298944837540784noreply@blogger.com